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Wednesday, 14 October 2015

Past Mistakes and a Willingness To Make Amends



The PBCC acknowledged past mistakes, demonstrated a willingness to make amends and proposed to address these issues by amending its trust deed, clearly setting out its doctrine and practices, including highlighting the concept of showing compassion to others. The Commission was satisfied that the doctrine and practices are integral to the trusts; these demonstrate charitable intent and are binding on the trustees when administering the meeting hall. The Commission was further satisfied that it is able to regulate against these trusts.

19 comments:

  1. Blah blah blah blah blah .....

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  2. I have yet to see evidence of any willingness to make amends for harm and detriment caused by their behaviour. Denials, forgetfulness, prevarication, water muddying, time wasting are still very much the order of the day.

    Compassion? Forget it. They won't even give me my PBCC sister's contact details, but on my death, I quite expect them to ransack my burial, just like they did my Dad's.

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  3. Since 2012 when the Charity Commission first launched their investigation into the Exclusive Brethren, who renamed in 2012 as Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, and since the UK Charity Commission 55 page report of 2104, our family and others that we know of, have experienced NO change whatsoever.

    - The family is still divided

    - There is no contact at all

    - There are extended family who we have never met

    - There are close family members who we have had no normal contact with for over 40 years

    - Birthdays, weddings, funerals, holidays, general life, etc, are all affected by the evil sectarianism and extremism of the PBCC EB separation rules.

    - Contact was initiated from our side with some family members, after the 2014 Charity Commission Report was published, because we thought the PBCC EB had signed up to a change of heart and a change of principle to become more Christian. At least that’s the way the CC Report & ‘Faith in Practice’ document read, which the PBCC EB signed up to. However, we were told by those we did contact that future contact would not be beneficial and essentially told to go away.

    - The fact that we are ourselves Church going Christians who sit at the Lords Table and enjoy fellowship, worship and communion with the Body of Christ as Biblically taught, just demonstrates that the sectarian cultish extremist separation of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren has nothing whatever to do with Gods Word the Bible or Christianity.

    So,

    1. Have “The PBCC acknowledged past mistakes” – Certainly not, because they continue to maintain them !

    2. Have the PBCC EB “demonstrated a willingness to make amends” – Certainly not, nothing has changed, they still enforce the sectarian extremist non biblical separation rules.

    3. Have the PBCC EB “Addressed these issues by amending its trust deed, clearly setting out its doctrine and practices, including highlighting the concept of showing compassion to others.” – Certainly not, nothing has changed. Amending trust deeds or setting out doctrines and practices, or claiming to “show compassion to others”, are simply a ‘paper exercise’ because in reality nothing has changed. !

    The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren have done nothing but con and hoodwink the UK Charity Commission, other authorities and some MP’s. They distort the Christian message and Gods Word and use it to disguise and cover up their own dirty extremism and sectarianism.

    If a member of the PBCC EB wishes to discuss these matters in more detail they should contact me on emailtherev at gmail.com

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    1. Rev..Given your bad attitude and cup of pure poison, it's little wonder that your relatives would rather not have contact with you. I think your whole agenda is doing the separation bit, so you have only yourself to blame.

      Good luck

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    2. Dear Anon 23 November 2015 at 08:01

      I don’t understand the point of your comments, perhaps you could explain in more detail ?

      Meanwhile, I’m sure the Charity Commission will now be aware of the following –

      - The words you used to describe a non member Christian “bad attitude and cup of pure poison”
      - The way you belittle and dismiss the unchristian separation
      - The way you imply there is nothing wrong with physical separation, despite the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren) agreeing that separation was ‘no longer physical but moral’ in the 2014 Charity Commission Agreement
      - The way you use the words ‘cup of pure poison’ just like the ministry by your leader Bruce Hales in the last few months which recommended person use poison to commit suicide if leaving the group.
      - The way you belittle and dismiss a person exposing the ugly truth about the PBCC (aka Exclusive Brethren), yet, that is to be expected because you don’t want the truth to be exposed.

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    3. Anon 23 Nov 08:01

      Would that be the same poison that Australian, furniture salesman, Mr Bruce Hales suggested should be taken by anyone who wanted to leave his money churning cult? Apparently, he was unusually sober at the time, too, so he must have been serious.

      Separation is at the heart of everything the Exclusive Brethren aka The Pymouth Brethren Christian (sic) Church (sic) do and believe, irrespective of anyone's agenda. You could be, by public accord, the greatest of living saints, but would still be evil in the warped, perverted, insane mindset of the controlled and indoctrinated PBCC.

      Cheers

      Delete
  4. A willingness to make amends for past mistakes? Pahleease! A bit like their apologies handed out in 2003 to people they had ejected quite wrongly - separating them forever from their families. What came of that? Nothing!

    What people have to understand here is that we are not dealing with an honest organisation. We are dealing with a sect that engages the services of a PR company - who at the behest of the big man - structure 'campaigns' like this latest soiree into 'charitable works' to make themselves look legitimate and normal. But no amount of PR will ever make them normal.

    So you can say all day - we are always looking at ways to address any wrong - and we just want to pay our taxes and make a contribution to society and we help at many disaster sites around the world and all the rest of it - but it does not address the honesty of what they do. So they can say whatever they like without it actually being true. In short it's all PR. All bullshit!

    A bit like the images on their website- flying kites on beaches and strolling at holiday resorts and playing instruments in bands. When I was a Peeb all those things would have got you the arse so quick your feet wouldn't touch the ground on the way out. So NOT HONEST! Smoke and mirrors! PR bullshit.

    AT the end of the day the PBCC are not honest people. The rank and file may be - but the blokes driving the thing have started to get sucked into the wonderful world of hype and PR. Say all this crap long enough and people will believe you they reckon - at the urging of their PR gurus.

    BUT - has one person managed to see and have a normal relationship with their family - who was wrongly dealt with - as 'one of their past mistakes'- by these people? Well I know for a fact that I haven't. I've now got family that I don't even know exists. Two generations wiped from my life. And there's a thousand or more people out there in the same boat. And they have the gall to sneer at Scientology! Getouta here! If they look a little more honestly - they will see that they were in bed with them in the same PR outfit making up the same self-serving deceitful crap.

    Bottom line- when a sect tells you they are being honest about things - generally they aren't.

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  5. I'm interested in the comment, mentioned above in Brother Rev's contribution, that PBCC members thought that future contact with their non-PBCC family would not be "beneficial".

    That actual word hasn't been used in any of my conversations or correspondence with various PBCC members since January 2014, but it has been enormously difficult, indeed almost impossible, to establish any kind of normally friendly, courteous and mutually useful communication with these brethren. I could easily conclude that they don't view contact with me as 'beneficial' to them and if that is so, it's a shame and I regret it.

    What I wonder, though, is whether these brethren ever take time to consider that contact with them could be 'beneficial' to a non-Brethren person like me. At its most basic, sharing the love of God, and loving your neighbour as yourself, could be constructive in all kinds of ways with a whole range of people. It's such a pity that these brethren don't seem to see themselves as loving and kind people who have a great deal to give to their non-Brethren family members and their fellow citizens.

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    1. Shall we spell it out for you Joan?
      SEPARATION...
      End of nice flowery words please.
      Thanks in advance from a contented non member...
      who accepts and respects the decision.

      Delete
    2. Shall we spell it out for you Joan?
      SEPARATION...
      End of nice flowery words please.
      Thanks in advance from a contented non member...
      who accepts and respects the decision.

      Delete
    3. Please explain how you are content if you agree with the EB's separation and yet you yourself are separated from them if you are a non member..
      Not a very happy position. But then many EBs seem to be illogical!

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    4. Anon 23 November 2015 at 08:10

      “Separation” – but from what and to whom ?

      ‘Separation’ from what ?

      The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren) separate from ‘Every non-member’. This is irrespective of faith, church, background, wealth, Christian or non Christian, moral or immoral, etc.

      For example, you (PBCC aka EB) refuse to eat or drink with non Christians, yet, you also refuse to eat or drink with actual Christians who are part of the Body of Christ !

      For example, you refuse to work with other faiths for the common good of fellow man, yet, you also refuse to work with any other Christian Church !

      For example, you refuse to engage with poor & needy people, or work with drug addicts etc, yet, you also separate physically from genuine Christians who have left your group !

      For example, you are happy to sell products to “worldlies”, yet, your members are not allowed to worship, fellowship, or commune with other Christians in the Body of Christ !

      This indiscriminate blanket separation from ‘everyone else’ shows no discernment, or thought, or guidance from the Holy Spirit at all and is not taught by Gods Word which is the Bible.

      Please remember, that the Bible, the Word of God is the ‘Only’ place where Christians can verify if teachings are supported by God’s Word, because God can not contradict Himself (Hebrews 6:17–18, Num. 23:19). Irrespective of persons claiming otherwise - if teachings contradict the Bible, or disobey the Bible, or ignore the Bible, they ‘Cannot’ be from God. Putting God’s name to such contradictory false teaching is heretical, blasphemous & not of the Christian faith.

      Your ‘separation’ in the manner you practice it, is nothing but deep ugly sectarianism, which is hated by God (read the Bible and you will learn that).

      So to whom do you ‘separate’ to ?

      It isn’t to Christ, or God, or Jesus, because they never taught the separation you practice. Separating from other Christians accepted by Christ & part of the Body of Christ and in the process declaring all Christians outside of your group as ‘iniquitous’ ‘unfit for fellowship’ etc, is abhorrent to God !

      So you ‘separate’ to your leader, or leaders past, which isn’t a Biblical Christian position at all.

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  6. Some talk of lack of compliance with the CC agreement, and then how much etc

    But surely from that ministry in June in Sutton, anyone in authority can see -
    This a leader who thinks of bloodshed and not peace. Why is it allowed in Britain
    The way former members are labelled as poison is to keep the group closed to outsiders, therefore they are not charitable as their only real charity is to members

    The PBCC is a CLOSED CLUB, and should be denied charitable status

    Come on Mr Shawcross, what else do you need?

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  7. From what I am told, the CC are "well aware" of who the EB are and what the EB are really about. I certainly hope so. Most viewing this post will already know who the EB are, but many others will view them as a church. But it is reassuring to hear that the CC are not convinced. The CC have been following up several leads, I have been involved in some. The EB have failed to meat many of their pledges. So where from here? So far it has been step by step, breach by breach, failing by failing. A long process whereby every step has been reviewed individually. This is probably mostly good news for those who want unity for families and value for taxpayers. But we must be getting nearer the point where the CC take real action. They must now know who the EB really are. I am told they fo. So what will the CC do, and when? I suspect that it will run for a while yet, perhaps several months. But the EB are not meeting the basic requirements of being a charity. So the CC will be able to (perhaps compelled to) act. They can do a number of things, but I suspect the most likely (and possibly the most reasonable and effective) action could be to pass the meeting room assets to another local and similar charity such as the Quakers, Baptists, C of E, or Methidusts. This would tick many, perhaps all, of the boxes. The congregatian would keep their place of worship, the mainstrean Christian teaching would continue, and only the stewardship would change. Even the EB would like it, wouldn't they? They are apparently Christian, mainstream, and are charitably serving the community. But we know that they will fight, fight very hard, to prevent this outcome. Reason? They are not Christian. They are not mainstream. They are probably better described as a business network based on the framework of a personslity cult.

    I am reliably told "the CC know who they are dealing with". If true, that is good news for the taxpayer. It will also lead them to act soon.

    Graham A.

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  8. "the most likely (and possibly the most reasonable and effective) action could be to pass the meeting room assets to another local and similar charity such as the Quakers, Baptists, C of E, or Methidusts (sic)".

    Are you suggesting that the meeting rooms be confiscated from the EB, passed to the organisations you mention and that "even the EB would like it"?

    If you are, you are massively deluded. The EB would rather destroy their temples than see them overrun by infidels.

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    1. The meeting rooms cannot be “confiscated from the EB” because they don’t belong to the EB. If they have been bought from charitable donations attracting tax relief, then they belong to a charity and by law they can only be used for purely charitable purposes. They can never legally be returned to the donors. If, as you suggest, the EB were to destroy a meeting room rather than “see them overrun by infidels” then they would be prosecuted for destroying something that does not belong to them.

      However, I think that question will probably not arise. I think the CC would be very reluctant to de-register any of the Brethren trusts. That would almost certainly result in an appeal to the Charity Tribunal. It seems more likely that the CC will use an unspoken threat of deregistration to persuade the Brethren to make the changes that they promised in 2014.

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    2. The suggestion that the EB would like it was sarcasm based on their claim to be mainstream Christians very similar to other churches. If it were true then it would be no major issue for them if they were deregistered as a charity and the hall placed in the care of another church that was genuinlly providing mainstrean Christian teaching. Fact is they would fight that outcome hard, because they are not a mainstream church, they do not provide mainstream teaching, and are not for the benefit of the community. In fact if you share meeting content with the wider community you are a traitor. If you drink tea with the wider community you are barred from services as unclean and unfit for worship.

      I hope the CC do succeed in getting the EB to come in line with what they have agreed to. So far it has not come to much. But the EB will not like the threat of deregistration, it would have a financial impact. But the CC has the power to deregister and place the assets in the care of a similar trust that does meet the test of charity and public benefit.

      GA

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    3. In any case, deregistration of a meeting room trust would not necessarily mean that the Brethren meeting room would be taken over by “infidels”. If a meeting room trust, on account of wishing to obey Brethren ministry, could not operate purely for the public benefit and could not deliver a net public benefit, then its assets, including the building, could be transferred to some authentic charity and the Brethren could pay rent to that charity, leaving them free to continue using the meeting room for purposes that don’t have to be charitable.

      The law would be satisfied if the rent that they paid was used for purely charitable purposes, preferably purposes similar to those specified in the Brethren’s Trust Deed. The Brethren might subsequently buy the meeting room back from the charity, using income on which tax had been paid.

      So there is no need for the Brethren to worry about Quaker, Baptist, Methodist or C of E “infidels.” The only things for them to worry about are their tax concessions and their reputation.

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  9. Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Jeremiah 13.23

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