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Monday, 28 March 2016

The inhumanity and cruelty of separation as practiced by the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church

The barbaric practice of destroying families carries on unabated to date within this dreadful Hales led cult.
I haven't seen my youngest son for years now!
This very week we hear of youngsters being taken from their Mother by the cult-it really is time to mobilize some serious action against these fearsome deeds carried out by a destructive sect which purports to be a 'mainstream' Christian Church.

38 comments:

  1. Mainstream churches are not in tension with the surrounding culture and society - cultic groups are. The HEB are definitely in tension with society - in fact they hate it don't they. They cannot claim to be a mainstream couch because of that and also because they are exclusive with their membership whereas mainstream churches are inclusive...... which is why Darby left all those decades ago

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  2. So much for the 'agreement' reached with the Charity Commission. The Charity Commission were duped good and proper. Deed of Variation not even worth the paper it's written on. Bible and Gospel Trust still churning out words of hatred and encouragement to die rather than say what goes on inside evil cult. There's apparently a lot of money in it too, like £7.6 million at the last count. Is that being put aside to settle claims of harm and detriment levelled at them?

    When will the rank and file see past that greedy bastard Hales? Laughing all the way to the Johnnie Walker Blue Label store. Would you want to be seen or photographed in public if you were that obese? Little wonder the coward hides in the shadows.

    Bulletproof windows if you have him to stay? Hardly anyone other than EB and ex-EB have even heard of him! A legend amongst just 46,000 increasingly genetically faulty followers? Bit like playing central midfield role for Broadmoor FC.

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    1. If you are aware of any actions of EB charitable trusts that are registered on the basis of the DOV and FIP documents that are not complient, then alert the CC. You can also alert the trustees of the particular trust that their actions are neither acceptable or in accord with the agreed principles. The CC have been advised of many such failings of the EB and are following up several that I am aware of.

      Please keep the CC informed.

      Matt E

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  3. In recent years I was asked by an EB member if I accepted the principle of separation

    On reflection, I wished I had turned the question round to " does he or the EB understand the principles of separation?"

    Luke

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  4. I sometimes wonder whether members of the PBCC Exclusive Brethren have a precise understanding of what they mean when they talk to non-Brethren about “the principle of separation”.

    In January 2010, when I suggested to our EB neighbour that we might study Galatians together, this ‘sister’ said, “It’s separation, Joan”, and closed her front door in my face. I remember it well because it was a snowy morning and I was left out in the cold. As I thought about what exactly she meant by invoking separation, instead perhaps of making a conventional excuse that she was too busy and couldn’t fit it in, I realised that I probably appalled her simply because I wasn’t a member of the Brethren. Presumably she wasn’t opposed to studying the apostle’s letter with her fellow brethren.

    Last year a senior ‘brother’ in this group revealed to me how confused these brethren are about separation. He told me that from 1828 in Dublin the Brethren had practised separation. I replied that it was certainly around then that they began to separate ecclesiastically - they were a secessionist group in Dublin, rather as the Walkerites and Kellyites had been before them. I told him that there was contemporaneous documentary evidence that J N Darby, for example, had kept company, studied the Bible and had tea with people who didn’t share his ecclesiology. The ‘brother’ who was talking to me replied “Pffft” and I didn’t get around to telling him about J G Bellett and others who retained the warmest of relationships with their non-Brethren family members, friends and colleagues.

    It would help so much if these brethren could decide that it’s a right principle to separate from evil = adikia = unjust and illegal acts (2 Timothy 2:19), but that it’s also a biblical priority to love their neighbour as themselves.

    By the way, this senior ‘brother’ wrote to me afterwards explaining that he couldn’t have anything more to do with me because I didn’t accept separation.

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    1. Dear Joan,

      You are very perceptive given that you have never been a member of the brethren. Yes, they would indeed be appalled by the fact that you were not a brethren. That makes you a 'worldly' (blind to the joy, wonder and faith of the Lord and His assembly), or an 'out' (a previous member who has turned their back on God's special position). Very unChristian indeed, but please give consideraton to the fact that they have not had the same freedom of thought that has been afforded to most of us. Their situation and the regime under which they sit is obviously terrible. But they have been born into it, have restricted exposure to any other way, know no better, and indeed need our support.

      I am sorry you were left out in the cold. Please try not to take offence, they probably thought that they were serving the Lord, perhaps teaching you a lesson.

      But please stay strong, keep posting on here, stay in touch with members of the brethren if you can, and remain faithful.

      The brethren will probably stick to their separation from anyone who is not a member of the cult for a while... but folk like you may be able to help them.

      Please keep talking with them if you can. And keep posting here. Your understanding of the brethren, your grasp of scripture and biblical history, your heart, your wisdom, your kindliness, your experience, and your connections, place you well to help the EB.

      With love,

      Angus

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    2. Thank you Angus. I'm sorry - I've only just caught up with your kind comments.

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    3. I do believe that all churches that do not subscribe to the ecumenical position of denominational unity, would not allow their members to participate in a Bible study with a non-member.
      I know my church certainly would not allow it.

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    4. Perhaps you could let us know, Deltadawn the names of the churches that subscribe to the "ecumenical position of denominational unity"
      Our church which does not subscribe is very happy for persons of whatever church background (or none) to attend Bible Study. Recently it was through the means of such a bible study that I am aware of that a man came to faith in Christ.
      Perhaps Deltadawn you could clarify what subscribing to the ecumenical position of denominational unity means because I have never heard of it.

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    5. Deltadawn
      I am seriously interested in clarification. I have spoken with some Christian friends who attend other churches. They are as baffled as I am. Evangelical churches regularly use bible study as a means of helping those who are interested in Christianity. Alpha and Christianity Explored are two bible study courses used by many churches to help those who are keen to learn more about the Christian faith. Perhaps you could tell us why your church does not allow the study of the bible with a non-member.
      I don't understand it unless your church happens to be the Exclusive Brethren!

      Delete
    6. Deltadawn 5 May 2016 at 17:17

      Your comment is news to me

      Please tell me what Churches would allow non-member bible study participation, and what Churches wouldn't?

      What denomination do you attend?
      I'm looking for a Bible study group in my area, and may look them up

      CB

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  5. My understanding is that the PBCC Exclusive Brethren, when they signed their "agreement" with the Charity Commission accepted that separation was moral and not physical. I have not seen any evidence that this has been put into practice. What Joan has stated is accurate and can be substantiated from J N Darby's writings.
    It was the teachings of James Taylor Junior (who was widely acknowledged outside the Exclusive Brethren as an alcoholic) that introduced and insisted that separation should be not just moral but physical. As a consequence husbands left wives, wives husbands, children were separated from one of their parents and grandparents. Divorce which up to that time was almost unknown amongst the EB became a means of enforcing physical separation from an excommunicated partner. Our children who are now in their forties grew up never knowing their maternal grandparents. A few years ago my daughter spoke to some of their "street preachers" and asked them why she had been deprived of knowing her grandparents. They just shook their heads and walked away.
    Separation as practised by the Exclusive Brethren since 1960 cannot be supported by scripture. 2 Timothy 2:19 has been twisted to define anyone not a member of the Exclusive Brethren as an evil person. Ex-members who disagree with them and have joined other Christian denominations seem to be regarded in an even worse light!

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  6. I believe JT Jr. Said that separation would now be legal, moral, and physical. Perhaps someone can confirm that. Perhaps it is in print in his or Symington's books.
    12 Mini

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    1. I have heard this several times whilst in, and so I was quite shocked to see what they have led the CC to believe.

      It seems to be JT jr or JHS, but I don't have the reference.
      Additionally I haven't found it in God's book - The Bible

      Thomas

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    2. Here is an extract of ministry of J. H. Symington, Vol. 9 page 185 (Winnipeg 21 Oct 1972).
      “A.MacL. In a simple way, separation agreement as signed has proved in many places, has it not, to be useful in establishing things on the side of the assembly in a household?
      J.H.S. Our beloved said it needed to be moral, physical and legal. A legal document signed, I am told by legal people that if a recovery and reconciliation comes, it is just torn up and that is the end of it. And still it stands for the protection of the person identified with the truth. I am only saying that so that the matter is clear.”

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  7. No rebuttals from PBCC sympathisers yet? Maybe as Laurie approaches half a million hits they've given up and gone away?!

    Someone's gotta keep the firemen's tummies full of sausages.

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    1. I'm sure there are, but perhaps the 'visible after approval' committee is censoring such posts and deleting them.

      Delete
    2. Deltadawn
      Your comment disproves your argument! All comments however critical are accepted as any objective observer can confirm.
      This is in contrast to the website of the Plymouth Brethren Church which declines to accept comments which are even mildly critical of the organisation. Comments in relation to that organisation are generally bland, sycophantic and in my opinion mainly written by toadying members of the organisation.

      Delete
  8. The Exclusives don't practice separation at all

    Become a member and see what it's really like

    Abigail

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    1. Anon 22 April at 16:33
      (Abigail)

      Are you by any chance Abigail Cresswell who posts in the Ex Exclusive Brethren Facebook group ?

      That person also posts ill informed propaganda just as you have. You know you have posted something inflammatory because deep down you know what you have posted is completely untrue and is contrary to all factual evidence!

      The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren practice strict separation in the following factual ways –

      - They separate from ALL other Christians and Christian Churches.

      - Members are not allowed to fellowship, worship, or have communion at the Lords Table with ANY other Christains from ANY other Christian Church outside the PBCC EB.

      - If a member tries to leave the group, that person is “withdrawn from” under the doctrine of “separation from evil” even if that person is a Christian and even if that person is leaving to go to a Christian Church, they are still “withdrawn from”

      - Being “withdrawn from” means that person is separated from by the PBCC EB, which means family and friends cease to have normal relationships and contact is minimal if at all. The person is no longer allowed to attend meetings or to attend the Breaking of Bread meeting. The person is told and treated as “unfit for Christian fellowship”.

      - They do not engage in any eating or drinking with non members, even if persons are Christians of good standing, if those persons are not members of the PBCC EB the members of the PBCC EB are not allowed to eat or drink at the same table.

      - Current leader Brue Hales says in printed ministry that if members leave it is better for them to die, be shot, or be hanged, or commit suicide

      - Members are not allowed to have uninterrupted normal family relations with any relatives who are not members of the PBCC EB. This means that normal family occasions such as Birthdays, Weddings, Funerals, Holidays, Meals together, etc etc can not take place.

      - Some persons have not seen or had normal family relations with those relatives trapped inside the PBCC EB for over 40 years and that includes my relatives.

      - Members are not allowed to attend sporting events, or weddings, or concerts, or theatre productions, or vote, or have the freedom to listen to TV or Radio, or attend Christian gatherings or conferences outside of the confines of the walls of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren.

      Abigail,

      All of the above are examples of the facts of Separation that the PBCC EB practice. These facts and many others are totally contrary to what Gods Word teaches in His Word the Bible.

      Even those members of the PBCC EB who post on these blogs in a vain attempt to defend the PBCC EB at least admit that the group does practice “separation from evil” which results in the above listed facts !!

      So your even contradicting the members of the group.

      Abigail,

      Please don’t post such offensive untruths

      If you wish to have a honest discussion please contact me on emailtherev@gmail.com

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    2. I disagree with you regarding your statement that separation as practiced by the PBCC is contrary to what God's Word teaches in His Word the Bible.
      I refer you to Rom. 12:2; 1Cor. 10:21; 2Cor. 6:14-18; James 4:4; and 2John 1:10 to name but a few verses supporting separation from the heathen world and unbiblical Christians.

      Your complaint against the PBCC separation policies is as best I can tell, pure emotionalism and not biblical. Especially in light of the absence of verses to support your position against separation.

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    3. Perhaps Deltadawn you could provide a scripture which would support a husband separating physically from his wife (see 1 Corinthians 7 verse 12). I am aware of instances where divorce of spouses has happened even where the partner is a believer. This is clearly contrary to God's Word
      Brother Rev has carefully and systematically demolished the false teaching of the Exclusive Brethren in relation to separation introduced by James Taylor Junior a discredited alcoholic who was clearly unfit to exercise leadership in any Christian Church. This false teaching has been continued and endorsed by subsequent leaders.
      It would also be interesting to learn your definition of an "unbiblical Christian". The Exclusive Brethren do not follow the bible, they follow the words of a man.
      My children did not see their grandparents from when they were infants in 1970 (following the unbiblical activities of James Taylor Junior) until their grandparents died. What scripture would support such a separation.
      By the way are you Abigail under another name?

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    4. Deltadawn

      I will look up your references later

      I see you haven't mentioned Matthew 19 v.6
      This is the first use of the word separate in JND's New Testament. I regard it as the first principle of separation.
      Would you agree with me?

      Thomas

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    5. Dear Deltadawn 5 May 16:59

      The Bible references you quote are as follows -

      Romans 12 v2 And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of [your] mind, that ye may prove what [is] the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

      1 Corinthians 10 v20-21 But that what [the nations] sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God. Now I do not wish you to be in communion with demons. 21 Ye cannot drink [the] Lord's cup, and [the] cup of demons: ye cannot partake of [the] Lord's table, and of [the] table of demons.

      2 Corinthians 6 v14-18 Be not diversely yoked with unbelievers; for what participation [is there] between righteousness and lawlessness? or what fellowship of light with darkness? 15 and what consent of Christ with Beliar, or what part for a believer along with an unbeliever? 16 and what agreement of God's temple with idols? for *ye* are [the] living God's temple; according as God has said, I will dwell among them, and walk among [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be to me a people. 17 Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith [the] Lord, and touch not [what is] unclean, and *I* will receive you; 18 and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith [the] Lord Almighty.

      James 4 v4 Adulteresses, know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore is minded to be [the] friend of the world is constituted enemy of God.

      2 John 1 v9-11 Whosoever goes forward and abides not in the doctrine of the Christ has not God. He that abides in the doctrine, *he* has both the Father and the Son.
      10 If any one come to you and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into [the] house, and greet him not; 11 for he who greets him partakes in his wicked works.

      Deltadawn,

      To use these biblical verses to justify separating from ALL other Christians only makes sense if your ‘position’ is that the PBCC EB are the Only -

      - true Church and ‘The’ Assembly
      - place Jesus approves of
      - place holding the Truth
      - place with the Lords Table
      - place following the Bible
      - place offering salvation
      - true Christians (45k members)

      This ‘position’ by default means that you think ALL other Christians and Churches of whatever type, are –

      - the tables of demons
      - heathens, lawless, unclean
      - worldly (however you interpret that)
      - unbelievers
      - darkness & wicked
      - follow idols
      - Adulterers
      - Not got the doctrine of Christ

      Deltadawn

      There ARE Bible following Christians outside the walls of PBCC EB who attend non denominational / denominational Christian Churches, who are part of the Body of Christ.

      There is no need to be a member of the PBCC EB to be saved, see John 3v16. If they are saved through the blood of Christ, then they are part of the Body of Christ, see 1 Corinthians 12 12-14.

      Yet you say they are ALL iniquitous and evil ! because you the PBCC EB “Separate from Evil” from them refusing to worship, break bread, fellowship or eat or drink with ANY Christians outside the PBCC EB.

      Such a position is nothing but sectarian cultish propaganda and abhorrent to God.

      The PBCC EB ‘Own’ website says –

      “DO BRETHREN BELIEVE THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE SAVED?
      No, not at all. The Brethren believe the Lord knows those that are His, and everyone who shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10v13). They believe there are many true believers along with the Brethren who will be eternally with Christ in heaven.”

      So, your website acknowledges there Are other Christians that Will be with Christ in Heaven, yet, you persist in sectarian cultish Pharisaical nonsense by “Separating from Evil” from ALL Christians even after acknowledging they are saved and will be in Heaven !!. That really is lawless and against the Word of God !

      So I stand by my statement - The type of “Separation from Evil” as practiced by the PBCC aka EB is contrary to what God's Word teaches in His Word the Bible

      Delete
  9. Abigail, Abigail, I have somewhat to say to thee. It has been my experience that one would be required to learn and practice separation "as held among brethren" prior to being accepted into their ranks at any age other than 8 days old. So that either my experience is at odds with reality, or you are a liar, an ignoramus, or you are joking.
    Or possibly you have had
    12 Mini

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    1. Abigail - I'd be grateful if you'd kindly advise me how, as a non-member, I can experience the good features and blessings of the mainstream PBCC Exclusive Brethren.

      Last July, when cancer reared it's ugly head in our family, I asked a senior member of the PBCC if we could pray with the Brethren. He said, "No. But if your car breaks down we would help you." He added that he personally would pray for us.

      How can I associate with these Brethren? Do you have any ideas that would help?

      Delete
    2. Joan
      My view is:- to "experience the good features and blessings of the mainstream PBCC Exclusive Brethren" you'd have to give up the good features and blessings of Christianity.

      I could go back to them, but it would mean giving up Christ and taking up idolatry, giving up honesty and taking up deceit.
      Sorry this probably doesn't help

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    3. I suspect *Abigail* is part of the PBCC propaganda department who have infiltated *pipelines of filth* via social media, comments and message boards, during and since the dispute with the CC. Remember.....go for the jugular.....the soft underbelly.

      If Abigail would care to reveal otherwise, my apologies will follow.

      Lord Haw Haw

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    4. I suspect *Abigail* is part of the PBCC propaganda department who have infiltated *pipelines of filth* via social media, comments and message boards, during and since the dispute with the CC. Remember.....go for the jugular.....the soft underbelly.

      If Abigail would care to reveal otherwise, my apologies will follow.

      Lord Haw Haw

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  10. Simple solution, repent of your sin and be accepted back into fellowship. Then you can visit with your son all you like. The choice to stay out or return is in your hands.
    But so long as your love of the sin that separates is greater than your love for your child, you will remain out.
    What sinful lusts have you placed ahead of your own child that you cannot give it up and repent? Do share.

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    1. Deltadawn or Abigail or whoever
      It was because of the sinful lusts of James Taylor junior that my wife and I left the Exclusive Brethren in 1970. As a consequence we were ostracised from my wife's family. It is now too late for the Exclusive Brethren to repair that damage.
      However the Exclusive Brethren could repent of their support for the misconduct and abusive language of their then leader. However I am not holding my breath!

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    2. Deltadawn

      1) Is there any wrong, in the Exclusives and their system?

      2) Can you explain the need for 'Plan B' if an outsider attends a meeting?

      Thomas

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    3. Thomas
      Do you not know that even when the Exclusive Brethren are wrong they are right!! - One of their leaders said that - I don't know if he was sober at the time!

      Delete
  11. Laurie and others who whine about being separated from their families, be honest and tell the people that it is your choice to be separated. That all you have to do is repent of your sin to be restored to fellowship and your families.
    But so long as your love of your sin is greater than your love of your family, you will in your pride refuse to repent and be restored to fellowship.

    Please don't blame the church for something which rests in your hands to set right. You made your choice, choosing sin over family, so suck it up and stop whining as though you're the victim. You're not, you're the wilful perpetrator of the sin that caused you to be excommunicated, not the church. I blame you.

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    1. Deltadawn, you say, “all you have to do is repent of your sin to be restored to fellowship and your families.”

      This statement is rather offensive on several counts.

      (1) Many were put out of the Hales group not because of any sin, but only because they disagreed with what a leader was saying or doing. That is not a sin. In fact, failing to disagree would in some cases have been a sin.

      (2) They are not out of fellowship; they are only out of the Hales group. The Hales group and the fellowship of God’s son are two very different things.

      (3) Your statement is not true. Repentance of every sin anyone has ever committed is absolutely no guarantee of being re-admitted to the group or being reunited with families. To be re-admitted and reunited, people would also have to agree with lots of very questionable teachings and obey lots of very questionable rules. Sin is often nothing whatever to do with it.

      Delete
    2. ' the wilful perpetrator of the sin that caused you to be excommunicated'

      What??????????? Some of us just walked away out of choice. No sin, no nothing, just a realization that it wasn't what we thought it was. Why should that mean we can't have anything to do with our less perceptive relatives still in?

      Delete
  12. I say, Deltadawn.....you are such a hoot! �� The original *sin* for someone being ripped out of his/her family might be for refusing to drink, refusing to ignore children/parents, trying to hang on to employment, disagreeing with a drunk and fornicator, disagreeing with local, Hitlerian despots, taking the fresh air, possessing a garage door opener, a radio controlled model aircraft, listening to music etc etc. The list goes on and on.....In any case, how do you confess to sins that might be now embraced by the hypocritical Exclusive Brethren? Rather, the Brethren should be confessing their sins and compensating their....shall we say....victims??

    Of course, to be restored to fellowship might mean descent into alcoholism, an obsession with materialism and wealth, mindless hours conforming to authoritarian, cultic life, for the sake of ridiculous dogma and enrichment of the élite.

    If you are a member of the Exclusive Brethren, you are a propagandist and disingenuous. If not, you could catch up on some research and then make an informed contribution.

    Mountainlight��








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  13. 'Laurie and others who whine about being separated from their families, be honest and tell the people that it is your choice to be separated. That all you have to do is repent of your sin to be restored to fellowship and your families. '

    Deltadawn with yet further proof that the PBCC agreement with the Charity Commission, that separation is moral rather than physical is being completely ignored. Ancient antipodean Athol was right when he said 'You. Won't. Change. Us' The PBCC will remain deceitful, deceptive and hypocritical to the end. They know no other way and when evil individuals within their ranks die, the sin of what they have done is conveniently buried with them and forgotten.

    So much for belief in a 'judgement day'!

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